WEBVTT Kind: captions Language: en-US 00:00:02.510 --> 00:00:05.080 Okay. So good morning, everyone. Thank you for 00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:09.630 joining us for today’s seminar. Just one announcement. 00:00:09.630 --> 00:00:13.200 We do not have anything scheduled for next week, 00:00:13.200 --> 00:00:17.491 so next week, we don’t have a seminar. I will remind you 00:00:17.491 --> 00:00:23.020 to keep your microphones on mute and your cameras off. 00:00:23.020 --> 00:00:28.060 And, with that, I pass it on to Andy Michael to introduce our speaker. 00:00:28.060 --> 00:00:31.250 - Thank you, Noha. So today we have the first seminar 00:00:31.250 --> 00:00:33.940 that’s been suggested by the Earthquake Science Center’s 00:00:33.940 --> 00:00:37.640 Working Group on Equity, Inclusion, and Diversity. 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:41.140 And, as we have discussed, the Earth sciences have an extreme lack of racial 00:00:41.140 --> 00:00:46.030 and ethnic diversity, which is a huge contrast to the U.S. military. 00:00:46.030 --> 00:00:49.109 At the same time, natural hazards take a disproportionate toll on 00:00:49.109 --> 00:00:52.180 low-income and minority communities. 00:00:52.180 --> 00:00:56.440 So, in an attempt to improve these issues, our subgroups focused on 00:00:56.440 --> 00:01:00.980 education and outreach, creating a welcoming environment and retention, 00:01:00.980 --> 00:01:05.600 and our hiring and internship practices to start working to those – 00:01:05.610 --> 00:01:07.720 toward those goals. It’s important that we share 00:01:07.720 --> 00:01:10.820 a communal understanding of where we are today. 00:01:10.820 --> 00:01:14.900 So I’m really glad that we have – Morten Ender has graciously 00:01:14.900 --> 00:01:18.671 agreed to speak to us about the Unlucky 7 – Understanding 00:01:18.680 --> 00:01:22.700 Social Characteristics in America and the Military. 00:01:22.700 --> 00:01:26.660 Morten is a sociologist and full professor in the Department 00:01:26.660 --> 00:01:29.440 of Behavioral Sciences and Leadership at the United States 00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:32.680 Military Academy at West Point in New York. 00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:36.240 He received a associate’s degree in general education from the 00:01:36.240 --> 00:01:39.840 University of Maryland European Division in Germany, 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:43.800 a B.A. in sociology from Sonoma State, in northern California, 00:01:43.810 --> 00:01:47.730 of course, right north of us. and completed his master’s and 00:01:47.730 --> 00:01:51.320 Ph.D., both in sociology, at the University of Maryland. 00:01:51.320 --> 00:01:57.320 His specialty is the study and teaching of military sociology, social psychology, 00:01:57.320 --> 00:02:01.190 and also how to teach sociology. He’s been a visiting professor in 00:02:01.190 --> 00:02:04.630 Germany and Norway, a fellow at the Defense Equal Opportunity 00:02:04.630 --> 00:02:08.530 Management Institute, and in the Department of Military Psychiatry 00:02:08.530 --> 00:02:13.840 at Walter Reed Army Institute of – Institute of Research. 00:02:13.840 --> 00:02:16.680 So he’s the author or co-author of nine books. 00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:20.769 His most recent is called Inclusion in the American Military – 00:02:20.769 --> 00:02:25.370 A Force for Diversity. He has a forthcoming book titled 00:02:25.370 --> 00:02:29.939 Teaching and Learning the West Point Way and is already working on his 00:02:29.939 --> 00:02:33.340 next book, which focuses on U.S. Army spouses, deployment, 00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:36.459 and the global war on terror. 00:02:36.460 --> 00:02:39.560 When not thinking about sociology, he says he tries to walk, run, bike, 00:02:39.560 --> 00:02:43.120 or swim, sometimes doing all five in the same day. 00:02:43.120 --> 00:02:46.400 So I believe that means he walks occasionally to a triathlon 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:49.920 and then thinks about sociology during the run. 00:02:51.880 --> 00:02:55.680 To foster some discussion today, he has suggested – he’s going to give 00:02:55.680 --> 00:02:59.579 a slightly shorter-than-usual seminar – probably about half the time. 00:02:59.579 --> 00:03:02.620 And then we’ll have a lot of time for discussion. 00:03:02.620 --> 00:03:05.209 People are welcome to either raise their hands using the 00:03:05.209 --> 00:03:09.900 little flag thing in Teams or type a question into the chat. 00:03:09.900 --> 00:03:16.040 And, if you are talking, we have about – over 60 people online now. 00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:20.440 We may be able to have people turn their cameras on while they’re talking. 00:03:20.440 --> 00:03:26.059 With that, we’ll let Morten give the first part of the presentation. Thank you. 00:03:26.860 --> 00:03:32.640 - Okay, great. Thank you, Andy, for that great introduction. 00:03:32.640 --> 00:03:37.400 Thanks to Adria for finding me. [laughs] 00:03:37.400 --> 00:03:41.720 And Noha and Kathryn and Susan for sort of setting me up here. 00:03:41.720 --> 00:03:44.740 You guys have been absolutely gracious. 00:03:44.740 --> 00:03:48.320 Appreciate this opportunity to speak to you guys. 00:03:48.329 --> 00:03:51.269 You see my disclaimer there – you’re government employees 00:03:51.269 --> 00:03:56.439 like I am, and, you know, all the views expressed here are my own and do not 00:03:56.440 --> 00:04:02.500 purport to represent those of any of the institutions I’m affiliated with. 00:04:02.500 --> 00:04:06.959 - We’re not actually seeing your – did you share your screen? 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:13.880 - So I want to start with a – with a geology story. 00:04:14.640 --> 00:04:21.080 I don’t get to tell this story often because I don’t talk to too many rock people. 00:04:21.080 --> 00:04:27.601 [laughs] But – so, as you saw there on my bio, as Andy pointed out, 00:04:27.601 --> 00:04:30.360 I went to school at Sonoma State University. 00:04:30.360 --> 00:04:33.960 It’s about an hour north of San Francisco. 00:04:33.960 --> 00:04:37.590 And, when I was an undergrad, my roommate was a geology major, 00:04:37.590 --> 00:04:40.750 and I was a sociology major. And he said, dude, you got to 00:04:40.750 --> 00:04:45.050 take geology. And I said, dude, I’ll take geology if you take sociology, 00:04:45.050 --> 00:04:48.250 and I bet I’ll get a better grade than you. 00:04:48.250 --> 00:04:55.700 So we both took our respective disciplines one particular semester. 00:04:55.700 --> 00:04:58.120 This is the early 1980s. 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:03.440 And I was sitting – so, you know, it’s general geology, 00:05:03.450 --> 00:05:06.540 so, I mean, I’m learning a lot. It’s really hard going through, 00:05:06.540 --> 00:05:09.060 you know, the hydrology cycle – all that. 00:05:09.060 --> 00:05:15.720 And, on this particular day, I go to class, and it’s earthquake day. 00:05:15.720 --> 00:05:18.560 It’s earthquake week, basically. 00:05:19.350 --> 00:05:23.640 So the professor comes in, and he draws a line on the board 00:05:23.640 --> 00:05:26.720 and says, okay, today we’re going to talk about earthquakes. 00:05:26.720 --> 00:05:30.860 And right at that moment, an earthquake happened. 00:05:33.020 --> 00:05:35.440 The professor didn’t feel it because he was standing. 00:05:35.440 --> 00:05:39.600 The rest of us were sitting, and it sort of felt like, you know, you were watching a 00:05:39.600 --> 00:05:43.370 movie, and you saw a blip, and you’re, like, did something just happen? 00:05:43.370 --> 00:05:47.800 And some of the students in there were geology majors, or preparing to be 00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:51.940 geology majors, and they said, hey, we think that was an earthquake. 00:05:51.940 --> 00:05:54.860 So, because we’re in the geology department, 00:05:54.860 --> 00:05:58.500 we ran outside and looked at the seismograph. 00:05:59.940 --> 00:06:06.900 And sure enough, the seismograph, apparently it had gotten to the end 00:06:06.900 --> 00:06:10.250 of the needle, and the seismograph had gotten actually stuck on the – 00:06:10.250 --> 00:06:15.490 it was such a large earthquake that it had gotten stuck on the flap of the 00:06:15.490 --> 00:06:20.520 paper on the end. Although it was still – it was still turning. 00:06:20.520 --> 00:06:26.300 And that turned out to be the Morgan Hill earthquake down there, 00:06:26.300 --> 00:06:30.000 I think, a little south of – south of you guys. 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:34.700 So that’s my one – that’s my one earthquake story. 00:06:34.700 --> 00:06:37.750 I only got a C – my only C as an undergraduate. 00:06:37.750 --> 00:06:43.700 Geology is hard. Man, that – you know, rock hammer and, 00:06:43.700 --> 00:06:46.580 you know, plate tectonics. I mean, I learned a ton of stuff, 00:06:46.590 --> 00:06:49.680 but apparently not enough to get a B or an A. 00:06:49.680 --> 00:06:54.020 Anyway, that’s my – that’s my geology story – my earthquake story. 00:06:55.260 --> 00:06:57.980 All right. Let’s get into the presentation. 00:06:57.990 --> 00:07:06.420 So what I’m going to do is talk about what I call the Lucky 7 – 00:07:06.420 --> 00:07:12.170 diversity more generically in American society – inequity more – 00:07:12.170 --> 00:07:14.500 inequality more generally in American society. 00:07:14.500 --> 00:07:21.990 But then specifically get to talking about the military case. 00:07:21.990 --> 00:07:26.420 The military reflects American society but doesn’t 00:07:26.420 --> 00:07:30.580 necessarily look exactly like American society. 00:07:30.590 --> 00:07:35.310 So I’ll do, you know, maybe 20 to 30 minutes, depending on how fast I talk, 00:07:35.310 --> 00:07:40.300 and then we’ll leave the rest of the time open for – you know, for a discussion. 00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:45.370 Okay. So you guys – you don’t have many Cracker Barrels 00:07:45.370 --> 00:07:47.980 out there in California. I think the closest one to you 00:07:47.980 --> 00:07:51.050 is probably in Sacramento. But there’s a lot of Cracker Barrels 00:07:51.050 --> 00:07:55.120 here on the East Coast. And I like to go there when I’m on the road. 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:58.780 My mother lives in Florida, and we drive all the way down – 19-hour 00:07:58.780 --> 00:08:02.580 drive to Florida, and we always stop for breakfast at Cracker Barrel. 00:08:02.580 --> 00:08:07.520 And I noticed one day, on one trip, that they finally posted their 00:08:07.530 --> 00:08:13.340 diversity statement in the window as you walked in. 00:08:13.340 --> 00:08:16.780 Like, okay, so you got the Cracker Barrel up there now. 00:08:18.260 --> 00:08:20.260 - Yes. - Right? Okay. 00:08:20.270 --> 00:08:27.360 Let me just go back to just – here was – here was the agenda that you didn’t see 00:08:27.360 --> 00:08:30.840 before, and this is the stuff I’ll cover. And I got to put that up because my 00:08:30.840 --> 00:08:37.650 book cover is on there, and I did put a kid through college, so … [laughs] 00:08:37.650 --> 00:08:40.979 Got to promote the book. Okay. 00:08:40.979 --> 00:08:45.940 So here’s the Cracker Barrel diversity statement. 00:08:45.940 --> 00:08:52.250 And, as you can see, it’s kind of limited [laughs] and it’s kind of goofy too. 00:08:52.250 --> 00:08:55.760 Because it says, in the spirit of pleasing people, we invite everyone, 00:08:55.760 --> 00:09:01.630 regardless of race, color, disability, or national origin. 00:09:01.630 --> 00:09:07.890 So they have about 3-1/2 – because race and color are kind of the 00:09:07.890 --> 00:09:14.020 same thing, and they have disability, and they have national origin. 00:09:14.960 --> 00:09:18.260 But apparently not necessarily concerned about others. 00:09:18.260 --> 00:09:21.680 Cracker Barrel had a lawsuit a number of years ago for 00:09:21.680 --> 00:09:25.480 discrimination, and it’s probably why they went to this. 00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:32.160 But not a particularly inclusive policy. 00:09:32.160 --> 00:09:36.540 And I’ll come back to this with another policy with another company later. 00:09:36.540 --> 00:09:41.470 And I don’t own stock in any of these companies, and I just – I just like to 00:09:41.470 --> 00:09:46.600 see how these companies approach diversity, inclusion, and equity issues. 00:09:46.600 --> 00:09:57.080 Okay. So when sociologists talk to folks about diversity issues – 00:09:57.080 --> 00:10:03.760 inequality issues in particular, we tend to focus on what we call, 00:10:03.760 --> 00:10:09.430 you know, the seven major areas. And these are the seven most 00:10:09.430 --> 00:10:16.840 contentious areas that we have a long history of inequity in the United States. 00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:23.000 And I’ll get to why I call them – I call them the unlucky or lucky seven. 00:10:23.000 --> 00:10:24.590 Because this has to do with intersectionality. 00:10:24.590 --> 00:10:28.100 But let me go into each one of these just briefly. 00:10:28.100 --> 00:10:32.250 Okay. Oops. I went the wrong way. I was going to show that again. 00:10:32.250 --> 00:10:34.700 Okay, here we go, so ... 00:10:37.250 --> 00:10:40.680 I tend to ask my students, you know, when do they think race and ethnic 00:10:40.690 --> 00:10:46.450 prejudice and discrimination will end? How will we know that it has ended? 00:10:46.450 --> 00:10:48.680 And I would traditionally sort of throw that out and 00:10:48.680 --> 00:10:50.920 get people to, you know, think about responses. 00:10:50.920 --> 00:10:54.420 And you could think about what your response might be. 00:10:55.520 --> 00:11:01.320 But sociologists have been looking at this in terms of something 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:05.860 called social distance. And a lot of us sociologists are kind of 00:11:05.860 --> 00:11:12.260 upset because social distancing means something else right now to everyone. 00:11:12.260 --> 00:11:14.970 What it – what people in – what we should be doing now 00:11:14.970 --> 00:11:18.470 is having physical distancing, not social distancing. 00:11:18.470 --> 00:11:25.300 We want to narrow the social distance between people, socially. 00:11:25.300 --> 00:11:28.040 We just want people to be physically separated 00:11:28.040 --> 00:11:30.730 so they don’t get the coronavirus. 00:11:30.730 --> 00:11:35.210 But there’s been a long history of studying social distance 00:11:35.210 --> 00:11:38.339 in the United States. A researcher named Emory Bogardus 00:11:38.339 --> 00:11:44.240 down at USC started studying distances between racial and ethnic groups 00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:48.430 in the United States all the way back starting in 1933. 00:11:48.430 --> 00:11:53.040 And he asked people basically a set of questions. 00:11:53.040 --> 00:11:56.180 And, you know, the first question is, would you want this – and they’re 00:11:56.180 --> 00:12:01.420 asking, you know, about brown people, about Asian people, Native American 00:12:01.420 --> 00:12:07.339 people, increasingly asking about Muslims, Arabs – 00:12:07.339 --> 00:12:09.810 certainly African Americans. And they asked you, would you 00:12:09.810 --> 00:12:13.850 want this person – should we exclude this person from my country? 00:12:13.850 --> 00:12:18.320 And then next is, as a visitor only to my country. 00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:21.020 Could they be a citizen in my country? 00:12:21.020 --> 00:12:23.920 Can they be employed in my occupation? 00:12:23.920 --> 00:12:26.840 Would you want them living on your streets? 00:12:26.840 --> 00:12:30.620 Then be in your – you know, again, this is 1933, so saying they’re a part of 00:12:30.620 --> 00:12:36.350 your club or as a personal chum. And then lastly, would you be 00:12:36.350 --> 00:12:41.980 willing to marry this person? And you can see what this is is a social 00:12:41.980 --> 00:12:45.490 distance scale where you’d scale people’s attitudes towards these groups. 00:12:45.490 --> 00:12:52.600 And what’s cool is, we can measure – and we have been measuring this across 00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:54.610 time and looking at – looking at trends. 00:12:54.610 --> 00:13:00.450 What’s been really cool is that social distancing has been narrowing. 00:13:00.450 --> 00:13:06.940 And it gets back to my question before – so my initial question was – 00:13:06.940 --> 00:13:11.000 getting back to the initial question, when does race and ethnicity end? 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.920 Well, it ends when we intermarry, basically. 00:13:13.920 --> 00:13:16.190 That means social distance has completely narrowed. 00:13:16.190 --> 00:13:20.029 And, in the case of, let’s say, early immigrants to the United States – 00:13:20.029 --> 00:13:23.860 some of my people. I’m actually an immigrant. 00:13:23.860 --> 00:13:28.180 But I’m German American. And Germans came here in the first 00:13:28.180 --> 00:13:36.400 wave of immigrants from Europe. And many of them were Protestants. 00:13:36.400 --> 00:13:41.250 And those Protestant Germans actually married Catholic Germans. 00:13:41.250 --> 00:13:47.300 And they started marrying Irish and Italians and Swedes and Norwegians. 00:13:47.300 --> 00:13:51.860 So – and previous to that, they probably would have never married. 00:13:51.860 --> 00:13:55.350 They treated each other much the same way we treat different 00:13:55.350 --> 00:13:59.260 racial groups in the United States in the 1920s and ’30s. 00:13:59.260 --> 00:14:06.370 But, for them, that ethnic social distance had narrowed. 00:14:06.370 --> 00:14:12.240 And we will likely see the complete narrowing once all these 00:14:12.240 --> 00:14:15.660 other groups start to intermarry. Okay. 00:14:16.830 --> 00:14:20.240 So that’s the Bogardus social distance scale. 00:14:20.250 --> 00:14:24.250 So also, with sex and gender, we know that the pay gap 00:14:24.250 --> 00:14:27.160 has remained pretty wide. We know there’s differences between 00:14:27.160 --> 00:14:31.589 men and women socially in terms of how they’re treated, including how 00:14:31.589 --> 00:14:37.170 they’re treated in the workspace. My colleagues who study occupational 00:14:37.170 --> 00:14:43.580 sex segregation tell me that women make about 80 cents 00:14:43.580 --> 00:14:46.060 for every dollar a man makes. So there’s been some – there’s been 00:14:46.060 --> 00:14:50.760 some progression, but women aren’t completely there yet. 00:14:50.760 --> 00:14:55.200 And when I get into intersectionality, you know, 00:14:55.200 --> 00:15:00.200 the gap widens or narrows, too, depending on the group. 00:15:00.200 --> 00:15:06.480 LGBTQ-plus issues are fairly large. A new terms that’s made its way into at 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.590 least the academic literature – I don’t think it’s going to stay, and I certainly 00:15:10.590 --> 00:15:16.139 don’t think it’s going to make it to the popular literature, and that is quiltbag. 00:15:16.140 --> 00:15:19.220 The Q is for queer. The U is undecided. 00:15:19.220 --> 00:15:23.220 The I is intersex. L is lesbian. T is transgender. 00:15:23.220 --> 00:15:29.420 B is bisexual. A is asexual. And G is gay. 00:15:29.420 --> 00:15:34.060 And these groups – while you can certainly – one can hide their sexual 00:15:34.060 --> 00:15:39.160 orientation, for the most part, unlike your sex and your race. 00:15:40.300 --> 00:15:46.160 These groups, if they want to be out, still suffer significantly, and there are 00:15:46.160 --> 00:15:51.030 significant differences when we look at them in the research. 00:15:51.030 --> 00:15:53.950 The same goes for religion, believe it or not. 00:15:53.950 --> 00:15:58.020 There are a lot of religious differences in the United States. 00:15:59.520 --> 00:16:10.880 And religions basically gain or lose people across time for various reasons. 00:16:10.880 --> 00:16:14.620 That’s kind of fascinating. And there’s a whole host of different 00:16:14.620 --> 00:16:21.060 discriminations based on religious affiliation in the United States as well. 00:16:21.060 --> 00:16:27.260 Social class remains a significant determinant in the United States 00:16:27.260 --> 00:16:29.880 where we differ in a whole host of ways. 00:16:29.880 --> 00:16:34.280 Sociologists tend to think in five different social classes. 00:16:35.540 --> 00:16:37.920 And there – you know, there you have them. 00:16:37.920 --> 00:16:40.390 You know, don’t necessarily look at the incomes because 00:16:40.390 --> 00:16:44.050 those vary – those vary with time. But, for the most part, social class 00:16:44.050 --> 00:16:47.680 is a really complicated thing to measure. 00:16:47.680 --> 00:16:54.640 It’s a proxy for a number of variables that includes one’s education, 00:16:54.649 --> 00:17:00.899 one’s occupation, the prestige of your occupation, your actual income 00:17:00.899 --> 00:17:04.459 in dollars, as well as your father’s occupation. 00:17:04.459 --> 00:17:07.030 That’s another variable we throw into the mix. 00:17:07.030 --> 00:17:10.120 And it’s father’s occupation because women’s occupations tend to 00:17:10.120 --> 00:17:14.240 be compressed. So you get more variability with father’s occupation. 00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:18.440 And that tends to determine one’s class standing. 00:17:18.440 --> 00:17:25.400 So, you know, President Trump, even before he became president, 00:17:25.400 --> 00:17:31.100 certainly came from that top level. Father wealthy, highly prestigious – 00:17:31.100 --> 00:17:33.850 attended a prestigious university, had a lot of wealth. 00:17:33.850 --> 00:17:39.160 So he’s certainly in that 1% range. 00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:41.990 And, you know, you can sort of calculate that out. 00:17:41.990 --> 00:17:44.290 And there’s certainly significant differences 00:17:44.290 --> 00:17:48.680 along class lines in the United States. 00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:54.160 Ableism. And that is people’s ability level. 00:17:54.170 --> 00:17:57.200 Estimates are that about 1 in 5 of Americans have 00:17:57.200 --> 00:18:02.510 a disability of one form or another. And these – ability would – 00:18:02.510 --> 00:18:07.030 or, ableism would include not just physical abilities, 00:18:07.030 --> 00:18:11.020 but mental abilities as well, to include increasingly 00:18:11.020 --> 00:18:20.520 what’s known as fat studies. So obesity issues get folded into ableism as well. 00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:26.080 And we know that there are a number of differences between people in terms of 00:18:26.080 --> 00:18:30.030 their physical and mental abilities. Indeed, we have the Americans 00:18:30.030 --> 00:18:34.900 with Disability Act, which is set up to not discriminate against 00:18:34.900 --> 00:18:40.880 folks based on ability level. 00:18:40.880 --> 00:18:45.710 And then age. Something we tend not to think about, but, you know, think 00:18:45.710 --> 00:18:52.820 about all the structural ways that we are different when it comes to age. 00:18:52.820 --> 00:18:55.160 And there are a whole host of them. 00:18:56.600 --> 00:19:00.720 You know, every state has a different requirement for driving. 00:19:00.730 --> 00:19:03.730 You can’t drive on certain highways unless you’re a certain age. 00:19:03.730 --> 00:19:05.910 You can’t get your driver’s license. 00:19:05.910 --> 00:19:08.550 I’m actually an advocate – I think people shouldn’t get a driver’s license 00:19:08.550 --> 00:19:13.150 until they’re 25, but I’m a minority in that view. [chuckles] 00:19:13.150 --> 00:19:16.860 The alcohol policy is pretty universal in the United States. 00:19:16.860 --> 00:19:21.380 It’s 21, but when I was growing up, you could get 3.2 beer when 00:19:21.380 --> 00:19:24.980 you were 18, but you couldn’t buy hard liquor. 00:19:25.660 --> 00:19:27.300 In other countries, it’s different. 00:19:27.300 --> 00:19:32.780 You know, in Germany, you can drink alcohol at 11. [chuckles] 00:19:32.780 --> 00:19:35.530 Smoking is regulated by age. 00:19:35.530 --> 00:19:41.340 Age of sexual consent is regulated. Marriage is regulated by states. 00:19:41.340 --> 00:19:47.480 Some states, you can get married under 18 or under 17 with parental consent. 00:19:47.480 --> 00:19:51.420 Voting. Retirement. Use of marijuana, both recreationally 00:19:51.420 --> 00:19:54.850 and medical – I’m not sure medically if there’s age restrictions 00:19:54.850 --> 00:19:57.700 or not, but certainly recreationally. 00:19:59.220 --> 00:20:03.020 Being tried as an adult. And certainly military service. 00:20:03.020 --> 00:20:09.450 You can’t join the military if you’re over 35. 00:20:09.450 --> 00:20:13.070 So you have to be under 35 at age of first enlistment. 00:20:13.070 --> 00:20:18.570 Interestingly, we raised that to 42 during the Iraq war – the early parts 00:20:18.570 --> 00:20:20.650 of the Iraq war. We were already in Afghanistan, 00:20:20.650 --> 00:20:24.010 but during the Iraq war, because we weren’t getting enough people. 00:20:24.010 --> 00:20:29.470 So they raised the age level to 42. But, again, you see these structural 00:20:29.470 --> 00:20:31.760 age limitations, and we know people vary. 00:20:31.760 --> 00:20:35.419 And children have a lot of – a lot less power in the United States. 00:20:35.419 --> 00:20:38.720 Additionally, there are cultural differences by age too. 00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:44.860 You know, we all – I teach a marriage and family class, and I have my students 00:20:44.860 --> 00:20:54.640 pen their personal ad, which would be their – where is it – what it’s called 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:58.690 when you swipe left – their Tinder ad, or whatever. 00:20:58.690 --> 00:21:00.919 And I ask them – most of them put the age. 00:21:00.919 --> 00:21:02.630 Like, what is your age limit? 00:21:02.630 --> 00:21:08.270 If you’re a 20-year-old student, how high would you go? 00:21:08.270 --> 00:21:11.450 And if some – if a 20-year-old goes above 30, people start to 00:21:11.450 --> 00:21:14.320 raise their eyebrow. And certainly, at 40-, 50-year-olds, 00:21:14.320 --> 00:21:17.830 they raise their eyebrow. It’s legal, but culturally, 00:21:17.830 --> 00:21:22.580 it’s sort of frowned upon. So, again, these cultural differences 00:21:22.580 --> 00:21:28.299 when it comes to age continue as well. 00:21:28.299 --> 00:21:32.570 So let’s transition then. And let me – but I have to make 00:21:32.570 --> 00:21:39.860 a point here because a lot of times people sort of politicize sociology. 00:21:39.860 --> 00:21:46.840 And, look, on a personal level, I’m a – you know, I’m a huge advocate 00:21:46.840 --> 00:21:50.850 for personal responsibility and people taking personal 00:21:50.850 --> 00:21:56.720 responsibility for their behavior and for their actions. 00:21:56.720 --> 00:22:05.980 But we do know that, statistically and sociologically, people are mediated – 00:22:05.980 --> 00:22:09.050 they’re buffered in terms of where they can get in society. 00:22:09.050 --> 00:22:11.610 And those people, when they are buffered, they’re buffered 00:22:11.610 --> 00:22:13.340 into these various categories. 00:22:13.340 --> 00:22:16.780 I mean, two of my favorite films, 8 Mile and Hustle & Flow – 00:22:16.790 --> 00:22:19.669 I don’t know if you’ve seen them, but I love both these films. 00:22:19.669 --> 00:22:25.650 Indeed, on Hustle & Flow, another college roommate actually composed 00:22:25.650 --> 00:22:29.920 the music for that particular film. I love both these films. 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:35.380 But both of these films are sort of classic Americana, raise yourself up 00:22:35.380 --> 00:22:38.299 by your own bootstraps, and you can be successful. 00:22:38.299 --> 00:22:43.679 Both main characters are from – you know, Eminem lives in a trailer park. 00:22:43.679 --> 00:22:47.270 You can’t get much lower in American society than a trailer park, 00:22:47.270 --> 00:22:50.299 other than perhaps being homeless. 00:22:50.299 --> 00:22:56.030 And then the other character is a – is a pimp pimping out his two women. 00:22:56.030 --> 00:22:59.520 And they ultimately, you know, make it in American society. 00:22:59.520 --> 00:23:05.120 But, again, you know, this is sort of the exception to the rule. 00:23:05.120 --> 00:23:07.940 This is, you know, rugged individualism. 00:23:07.940 --> 00:23:13.500 And, while that works for these two guys, and while others should 00:23:13.500 --> 00:23:18.559 aspire to that, all the data seems to suggest that you can’t do it. 00:23:18.560 --> 00:23:27.980 Only a few people will have one shot and will make it to higher – 00:23:27.980 --> 00:23:30.540 to a higher social status. Certainly, we have social mobility 00:23:30.549 --> 00:23:33.500 in the United States. But everyone can’t get there because 00:23:33.500 --> 00:23:39.190 of structural and sociological limitations that are – that are placed on people. 00:23:39.190 --> 00:23:43.580 We’re getting better, but we’re certainly not – we’re certainly not there yet. 00:23:44.900 --> 00:23:48.340 Okay. Let me just briefly talk about intersectionality, and then I’ll jump 00:23:48.340 --> 00:23:50.840 to the military, and then we can – we can talk a little bit. 00:23:50.840 --> 00:23:55.470 All right. So I gave you just individual characteristics like 00:23:55.470 --> 00:24:02.940 race, sex, social class. But you are never one of these things. 00:24:02.940 --> 00:24:05.340 You are always a combination of these things. 00:24:05.340 --> 00:24:08.910 And that’s what intersectionality means. And you’re hearing this a lot in the 00:24:08.910 --> 00:24:14.130 literature. Actually, intersectionality was first used in the 1800s by some 00:24:14.130 --> 00:24:18.870 Black women scholars – very unknown Black women scholars who have 00:24:18.870 --> 00:24:25.480 only recently been recognized. But, in more recent years, Kimberlé 00:24:25.480 --> 00:24:29.059 Crenshaw and Patricia Hill Collins have really written a lot about this, 00:24:29.059 --> 00:24:34.650 in particular with regards to poor Black women and their experiences. 00:24:34.650 --> 00:24:38.929 So the reason we talk about lucky and unlucky – so the luckiest people 00:24:38.929 --> 00:24:43.490 in American society are white, straight, cisgender, 00:24:43.490 --> 00:24:47.330 middle-class, healthy, Christian men. 00:24:47.330 --> 00:24:54.540 We are – and I’m one of those now – maybe not quite so healthy, and 00:24:54.540 --> 00:24:59.419 certainly not so young, but I am certainly perhaps the most privileged. 00:24:59.419 --> 00:25:06.150 And then the most unlucky in terms of intersectionality would be 00:25:06.150 --> 00:25:12.830 African American folks, women, poor backgrounds, with disabilities, 00:25:12.830 --> 00:25:20.039 perhaps from minority religions, and transgender, for example. 00:25:20.039 --> 00:25:23.220 So they would be more oppressed. So one would fall, depending on 00:25:23.220 --> 00:25:27.460 your intersection of your seven areas, on a particular 00:25:27.460 --> 00:25:31.560 oppression-to-privilege scale, right? 00:25:31.560 --> 00:25:34.360 So, when we talk about intersectionality, that’s really what we’re getting at. 00:25:34.360 --> 00:25:36.800 You’re not just a Black person. 00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:41.780 You’re always a Black – either a Black male or a Black female. Right? 00:25:43.360 --> 00:25:45.320 As well as a white male or a while female. 00:25:45.330 --> 00:25:49.650 So you carry these social characteristics with you wherever you go. 00:25:49.650 --> 00:25:52.470 And that’s what intersectionality is about. 00:25:52.470 --> 00:25:56.270 And, when we’re studying that, what we’re getting at is a 00:25:56.270 --> 00:26:00.860 much more nuanced understanding of people’s experiences. 00:26:00.860 --> 00:26:07.040 You know, the experiences of a white, straight male from the middle class 00:26:07.040 --> 00:26:12.500 are fairly different than a poor Black woman who is in a wheelchair. 00:26:12.500 --> 00:26:14.890 I mean, her experiences and my experiences 00:26:14.890 --> 00:26:19.440 are vastly different, sociologically. 00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:22.530 Okay. So let’s bring it home just quickly to the military. 00:26:22.530 --> 00:26:29.429 So we’ve had five social trends in the United States military 00:26:29.429 --> 00:26:32.480 since the inception – since the War of Independence. 00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:38.260 And one has been what we call this decline in this mobilization model. 00:26:38.260 --> 00:26:42.790 That we used to just call up, you know, farmers, you know, during the 00:26:42.790 --> 00:26:46.299 Civil War, you know, we had people come into the military. 00:26:46.299 --> 00:26:50.520 We needed them to serve. Same with the American Revolution. 00:26:50.520 --> 00:26:52.830 All these – you had to – George Washington had to go out 00:26:52.830 --> 00:26:56.040 and get all these volunteer farmers to come serve. 00:26:56.040 --> 00:27:00.400 They served for a – you know, for $2 a month. 00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:02.809 And then they went back to their fields, or they usually left, 00:27:02.809 --> 00:27:06.510 indeed, even, you know, right for the harvest. 00:27:06.510 --> 00:27:08.880 And we got rid of that model. And now we have to have 00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:13.940 a large standing force. Because we have to deploy rapidly. 00:27:13.940 --> 00:27:17.440 We’ve also shifted away from just fighting and winning the nation’s wars 00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:22.419 to doing a whole host of things. And you all talked about different 00:27:22.419 --> 00:27:25.610 disasters that are affected. So if – you know, if California is 00:27:25.610 --> 00:27:29.390 hit by a major earthquake, chances are, not only are the National Guard 00:27:29.390 --> 00:27:33.850 going to deploy, but we’re probably going to activate 00:27:33.850 --> 00:27:37.520 the active-duty to come and help as well. 00:27:37.520 --> 00:27:45.740 After Katrina, units went straight from Iraq, straight to Katrina – 00:27:45.750 --> 00:27:48.460 straight to New Orleans to help out after Katrina. 00:27:48.460 --> 00:27:52.659 We’ve got American forces down on the U.S. border. So American 00:27:52.660 --> 00:27:58.680 service members do a lot of different missions other than fighting wars. 00:27:58.680 --> 00:28:00.929 We’ve also moved towards the welfare state. 00:28:00.929 --> 00:28:05.190 So where we used to only take – the first people that we ever took care of in the 00:28:05.190 --> 00:28:09.160 United States were war orphans and widows after the Civil War. 00:28:09.160 --> 00:28:11.950 But increasingly, now, we take care of Americans 00:28:11.950 --> 00:28:17.750 in a whole host of ways, including with President Obama’s medical care – 00:28:17.750 --> 00:28:21.640 we gave medical care to all Americans, for example. 00:28:21.640 --> 00:28:24.890 We have disability. People have sick leave. 00:28:24.890 --> 00:28:28.200 All these things are part of what we call the welfare state. 00:28:28.200 --> 00:28:32.690 The two most important dimensions, though, are – for diversity, are the 00:28:32.690 --> 00:28:36.220 ongoing citizenship revolution and demographics. 00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:43.940 So the ongoing citizenship revolution means that every group outside of white, 00:28:43.940 --> 00:28:51.620 straight, Christian, cisgender, healthy men – every group has 00:28:51.630 --> 00:28:55.919 striven to join the military and prove their citizenship so they 00:28:55.919 --> 00:28:59.500 can gain full citizenship status. Because, through military service, 00:28:59.500 --> 00:29:02.950 you know, the ability to die – to give one’s life for your country 00:29:02.950 --> 00:29:07.120 and to take a life for one’s country is the ultimate form of citizenship. 00:29:07.120 --> 00:29:09.070 So all groups want to do that. 00:29:09.070 --> 00:29:14.590 So Blacks strove to be a part of mainstream military, and that didn’t 00:29:14.590 --> 00:29:19.940 happen until 1948 when Truman desegregated the military. 00:29:19.940 --> 00:29:23.200 For women, it didn’t happen until 2013, when we allow – 00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:27.450 we now allow women in all branches of the military. 00:29:27.450 --> 00:29:33.580 We lifted the don’t-ask-don’t-tell policy a few years ago, in 2011, 00:29:33.580 --> 00:29:37.080 to allow gays to serve openly in the military. 00:29:37.080 --> 00:29:42.880 President Obama allowed transgender troops to be transgender in the military, 00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:46.809 to transition, and also allow them to come in. 00:29:46.809 --> 00:29:51.809 President Trump’s administration has rolled that back a little bit. 00:29:51.809 --> 00:29:56.240 Remains to be seen how that’s going to play out. So that’s a little bit in flux. 00:29:56.240 --> 00:30:00.250 So the point is, is that groups come to the military seeking 00:30:00.250 --> 00:30:03.429 full citizenship status. And then, lastly, who serves 00:30:03.429 --> 00:30:07.860 in the military when everybody doesn’t? 00:30:11.280 --> 00:30:17.960 Especially now because we have an ongoing – well, we have – 00:30:17.960 --> 00:30:20.480 we have an all-volunteer force. 00:30:20.480 --> 00:30:23.100 And we’ve had that in place since 1973. 00:30:23.110 --> 00:30:31.330 And, again, all seven of these groups strive for recognition 00:30:31.330 --> 00:30:34.400 through military service. 00:30:34.400 --> 00:30:39.500 So, as I said, all people of color have come into the military to prove their 00:30:39.500 --> 00:30:43.450 citizenship status, and they want to serve in the hardest branches, 00:30:43.450 --> 00:30:47.520 and they tend to do that. And they may stay, and they may leave. 00:30:47.520 --> 00:30:51.320 Same for – same for women. Gays and lesbians and bisexuals 00:30:51.320 --> 00:30:54.940 wanted to serve openly. The military recognizes now 00:30:54.940 --> 00:30:58.940 80 different religious affiliations, including Wiccan, so that’s the 00:30:58.940 --> 00:31:02.160 most recent group that’s been recognized. 00:31:02.940 --> 00:31:06.420 The age issue is interesting. The military doesn’t like old people. 00:31:06.429 --> 00:31:08.500 [chuckles] So it’s an up-and-out system. 00:31:08.500 --> 00:31:12.100 You either have to get promoted, or you have to get out of the organization. 00:31:12.100 --> 00:31:16.900 So there aren’t a lot of old people around the military. 00:31:18.420 --> 00:31:20.980 And, of course, we don’t dip down too young. 00:31:20.980 --> 00:31:25.300 For example, to come in at 17, you have to have parental permission, 00:31:25.309 --> 00:31:29.929 and no one at 16 can come in. Disability – there are people now 00:31:29.929 --> 00:31:33.620 who are remaining in the military if they’re a wounded warrior. 00:31:33.620 --> 00:31:40.539 And we recently had a blind captain command a unit here at West Point. 00:31:40.539 --> 00:31:44.190 But we certainly aren’t letting blind people come into the military 00:31:44.190 --> 00:31:46.230 for their first term enlistment. 00:31:46.230 --> 00:31:50.110 As well as, you know, people with physical disabilities 00:31:50.110 --> 00:31:52.420 or mental disabilities. 00:31:52.420 --> 00:31:56.440 I’m waiting for the first kid to roll up in a wheelchair and say, I want to 00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:58.860 serve my country, and then he’s going to go – or she’s going to go 00:31:58.860 --> 00:32:02.429 to the Supreme Court saying, look, I can serve too. 00:32:02.429 --> 00:32:07.029 And arguably, there may be places where people with certain kinds of 00:32:07.029 --> 00:32:10.960 physical disabilities can serve. Social class remains a significant issue. 00:32:10.960 --> 00:32:13.419 You have to have a college degree in order to be an officer. 00:32:13.419 --> 00:32:14.870 And that separates officers. 00:32:14.870 --> 00:32:17.810 The question is, who’s next? What groups are coming along? 00:32:17.810 --> 00:32:24.600 Well, the Dreamers – these are people who were brought to the United States 00:32:24.600 --> 00:32:27.760 as children, and they were undocumented, but they attended 00:32:27.760 --> 00:32:30.340 schools, and they did all the right things in American society, 00:32:30.340 --> 00:32:33.680 except they’re undocumented. Those groups have striven 00:32:33.690 --> 00:32:37.480 for full citizenship status. President Obama was trying for years – 00:32:37.480 --> 00:32:39.360 and actually even before President Obama, there were 00:32:39.360 --> 00:32:44.140 efforts to get these folks to be able to serve in the military. 00:32:44.960 --> 00:32:50.000 President Trump has not allowed for that – in some ways actually 00:32:50.010 --> 00:32:53.980 went in the opposite direction. These people came out, and now 00:32:53.980 --> 00:32:58.470 they’ve outed themselves, and now we’ve begun to deport them, 00:32:58.470 --> 00:33:02.659 unfortunately. And then the question is, who’s the group after non-documented 00:33:02.659 --> 00:33:05.280 people who want to have full citizenship rights? 00:33:05.280 --> 00:33:07.419 And I would argue, it might be global citizens. 00:33:07.419 --> 00:33:12.179 That we might move towards a military that – because, if we want 00:33:12.180 --> 00:33:19.240 the best people in a global economy, then we make our military 00:33:19.240 --> 00:33:23.240 a global military. Kind of like a mercenary organization. 00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:25.580 Because, by the way, we’re not drafting them. 00:33:25.580 --> 00:33:34.260 We are simply recruiting them the same way that, you know, 00:33:34.260 --> 00:33:37.640 USGS recruits people. The same way Facebook 00:33:37.640 --> 00:33:41.500 and Google recruit people. We’re on the same market – 00:33:41.500 --> 00:33:44.080 you know, tapping into the same market as they are. 00:33:44.080 --> 00:33:47.740 So that may be the group who comes along next. 00:33:47.740 --> 00:33:56.340 Okay. So I wanted to mention the last – my last slide is just the Hard Rock Café. 00:33:56.340 --> 00:34:00.220 The last time I was out for dinner in a restaurant was [chuckles] 00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:05.180 the end of February. And I was at a professional conference, 00:34:05.180 --> 00:34:11.139 and I popped in there with some friends to have a turkey burger, and I noticed 00:34:11.139 --> 00:34:15.929 this is their – I asked the waitstaff, I said, you know, love all, serve all – 00:34:15.929 --> 00:34:17.849 is that your diversity statement? And they said, yeah. 00:34:17.849 --> 00:34:23.560 And this is right over the stage in the Philadelphia – so a much more 00:34:23.560 --> 00:34:31.300 inclusive company is the Hard Rock Café franchise. 00:34:31.300 --> 00:34:36.619 So I’ll stop there. Hopefully I didn’t take too long. 00:34:36.620 --> 00:34:40.020 Looks like we’ve got a nice chunk of time here. 00:34:40.020 --> 00:34:43.900 - Folks who have questions, feel free to type them in the chat, 00:34:43.900 --> 00:34:50.460 or pipe up and unmute yourself. 00:34:50.460 --> 00:34:52.690 - Oh, yeah. I’ll start. One thing that I think was 00:34:52.690 --> 00:34:57.339 interesting to me right near the end there was the issue of ageism and 00:34:57.339 --> 00:35:02.690 disability restrictions in the military. I think one way that sort of mirrors the 00:35:02.690 --> 00:35:08.610 Earth sciences is that we definitely have the image that the Earth sciences are 00:35:08.610 --> 00:35:13.680 populated by bearded, plaid-shirt- wearing, flannel-shirt-wearing white 00:35:13.680 --> 00:35:19.400 men who are out in the mountains. And in reality, what we do is, 00:35:19.400 --> 00:35:21.920 many of us sit in front of computers. 00:35:21.920 --> 00:35:27.570 We work in laboratories, you know, indoors with fume hoods. 00:35:27.570 --> 00:35:34.962 And that essentially our image has limited our appeal to a variety of 00:35:34.962 --> 00:35:38.859 people and limited who we’re actually recruiting into the field. 00:35:38.859 --> 00:35:40.700 And I wondered – you know, in some way, the military 00:35:40.700 --> 00:35:43.060 may be doing the same thing. I know that musicians in the military, 00:35:43.060 --> 00:35:44.900 for instance, have to know how to fight. 00:35:44.900 --> 00:35:48.220 And they have to know how to clean a rifle. 00:35:48.220 --> 00:35:51.180 But, you know, are you – are both of our organizations 00:35:51.180 --> 00:35:54.990 limiting themselves, you know, with an image and a requirement 00:35:54.990 --> 00:35:59.500 that people sort of – that isn’t really applicable to what people are doing? 00:36:00.940 --> 00:36:05.980 - Yeah. And, I mean, I think you hit it on the head on the last piece there 00:36:05.980 --> 00:36:11.900 about the people in the band that – every soldier is a warrior first. 00:36:11.900 --> 00:36:17.060 Everyone goes through, you know, basic military training, either as 00:36:17.060 --> 00:36:22.580 an officer or as an enlisted soldier. And then you are – you are branched out 00:36:22.580 --> 00:36:30.640 into your – into your specialty areas – your military occupational specialties. 00:36:31.740 --> 00:36:35.240 But, you know, the argument then becomes, you know, 00:36:35.242 --> 00:36:40.050 are you leaving talent on the table? You know, it’s about – you know, the 00:36:40.050 --> 00:36:44.830 buzzword now is talent management. Arguably, when we opened up the 00:36:44.830 --> 00:36:51.140 combat arms to women, one of the major concerns was women – you know, 00:36:51.140 --> 00:36:55.840 women couldn’t do the physical requirements that, you know, 00:36:55.849 --> 00:37:00.200 were necessary to be in combat. Well, when we opened it up and 00:37:00.200 --> 00:37:05.860 allowed women to show their strength – pardon the pun – they actually 00:37:05.860 --> 00:37:08.670 [laughs] – many of them are much stronger than a lot of – 00:37:08.670 --> 00:37:12.540 a lot of men can’t do some of the things we require of them. 00:37:12.540 --> 00:37:20.630 So we basically opened up 51% of the population as a talent – as a talent pool. 00:37:20.630 --> 00:37:27.099 And I think the military has hit – because, look, it is the biggest employer 00:37:27.099 --> 00:37:32.099 of any group in the United States. So it needs – it needs the most talent. 00:37:32.099 --> 00:37:37.140 And certainly, when the economy’s strong, the military 00:37:37.140 --> 00:37:40.990 has a difficult time recruiting. We recruit better, like, now, 00:37:40.990 --> 00:37:45.500 when the economy is weak because, you know, kids can’t find jobs. 00:37:46.640 --> 00:37:52.120 That’s – it’s sort of a – some people call it an economic draft of sorts. 00:37:52.120 --> 00:37:54.920 But that’s how it – how it fluctuates. 00:37:57.440 --> 00:38:01.760 Going back to this idea of, what is the military’s role, 00:38:01.770 --> 00:38:06.820 that is a major conflict within the military because the more conservatives 00:38:06.830 --> 00:38:11.380 see the military as a very – the primary role is sort of fighting and winning 00:38:11.380 --> 00:38:13.530 the nation’s wars. And I don’t know how that would 00:38:13.530 --> 00:38:17.820 apply to your organization, but, you know, what is the primary focus 00:38:17.820 --> 00:38:20.560 of your organization? But the reality has been, again, 00:38:20.560 --> 00:38:23.460 that we’re doing all kinds of different missions. 00:38:23.460 --> 00:38:28.060 So, for example, cyber is now huge in the military. 00:38:28.060 --> 00:38:32.740 It is a new – it is a new branch. It is ginormous. 00:38:32.740 --> 00:38:35.300 It is growing like crazy. 00:38:35.300 --> 00:38:39.780 And, you know, you sit at a computer a lot of the time. 00:38:39.780 --> 00:38:44.921 So the question becomes, you know, we make fun of the 500-pound kid 00:38:44.921 --> 00:38:48.750 sitting on a bed in his parent’s basement on a computer hacking, 00:38:48.750 --> 00:38:54.270 but, man, that kid might have some skills that America needs. 00:38:54.270 --> 00:39:00.530 And he may be able to serve his country and still, you know, 00:39:00.530 --> 00:39:04.940 not necessarily be fit to go out and rook in the mountains of Afghanistan. 00:39:04.940 --> 00:39:06.820 But we don’t need you for that. 00:39:06.820 --> 00:39:12.410 We need you to focus in on this particular area of cyber work. 00:39:12.410 --> 00:39:15.740 So it comes back to how you think – you know, what is the – what is the 00:39:15.740 --> 00:39:18.130 focus of your organization, and what are the needs of your 00:39:18.130 --> 00:39:21.680 organization, and what do you – what do you look at? 00:39:24.360 --> 00:39:27.800 Well, it’s two separate questions. 00:39:27.800 --> 00:39:35.040 I think our biggest obstacles – I think a good sociological response 00:39:35.040 --> 00:39:41.360 would be location – neighborhoods and education. 00:39:43.980 --> 00:39:50.520 Even though kids go to the same school, you know, you have poor kids and 00:39:50.520 --> 00:39:52.980 wealthy kids in the same school and Black kids and white kids 00:39:52.980 --> 00:39:57.100 in the same school. Within schools, they’re segregated. 00:39:58.340 --> 00:40:02.620 Even in my little village here, where my son went to high school, 00:40:02.630 --> 00:40:04.910 there were the kids that were college-bound, and there were the 00:40:04.910 --> 00:40:06.660 kids that weren’t going to college. 00:40:06.660 --> 00:40:10.060 And those were, you know, differentiated by race. 00:40:12.000 --> 00:40:14.820 And social class. And those are comingled. 00:40:14.829 --> 00:40:22.750 So I think – I think where people live, in terms of where they go to school 00:40:22.750 --> 00:40:30.430 and how they’re connected there – but I think after school – because 00:40:30.430 --> 00:40:34.410 schools should bring us all together and minimize social distance. 00:40:34.410 --> 00:40:39.530 And I think it has been pretty successful at that, and young people 00:40:39.530 --> 00:40:42.839 are far more tolerant – especially Generation Z – 00:40:42.839 --> 00:40:46.900 they’re far more tolerant than the older generations. 00:40:46.900 --> 00:40:48.800 But I think we could take it a step further. 00:40:48.800 --> 00:40:54.070 And I’m an advocate for bringing back universal national service that would 00:40:54.070 --> 00:41:00.470 force everybody, for a couple of years, to do some kind of service – either 00:41:00.470 --> 00:41:08.300 military service or, you know, planting trees in our national parks, 00:41:08.300 --> 00:41:10.660 fighting fires, taking care of the elderly – 00:41:10.660 --> 00:41:12.650 throwing everybody into a pot together. 00:41:12.650 --> 00:41:15.940 So minimize – you know, sort of this forced social distance. 00:41:15.940 --> 00:41:19.920 So I think that would do it rather than, you know, us sort of 00:41:19.920 --> 00:41:24.000 self-segregating ourselves. And I think the educational institution 00:41:24.000 --> 00:41:29.240 and potentially the military are the two institutions that can do that best. 00:41:32.500 --> 00:41:37.180 Maximizing social mobility. I think we have to really just level 00:41:37.180 --> 00:41:41.690 the playing field for everybody. If we want, you know, capitalism 00:41:41.690 --> 00:41:46.260 to work, everybody has to have an equal chance to be successful. 00:41:46.260 --> 00:41:54.220 Because, if you don’t – if you’re limited because of your race, class, and gender, 00:41:54.220 --> 00:41:58.860 and you’re not part of a particular network of people, you’re just – 00:41:58.860 --> 00:42:01.089 you’re not going to necessarily make it. 00:42:01.089 --> 00:42:04.320 So we need – we need some leveling of the playing field. 00:42:04.320 --> 00:42:11.440 And we also need white folks to start mentoring people of color. 00:42:11.440 --> 00:42:14.080 And women. In particular, white men. 00:42:14.090 --> 00:42:18.140 And that’s something we talk about in the military a lot is the mentorship issue. 00:42:18.140 --> 00:42:22.970 The way you become a general is – or even a senior-level officer is, 00:42:22.970 --> 00:42:26.120 you mentor people below you, and you pull them up. 00:42:26.120 --> 00:42:32.620 And what we’re trying to encourage white male generals to do is mentor 00:42:32.630 --> 00:42:37.540 people that are different from them in a whole host of ways and pull those 00:42:37.540 --> 00:42:44.660 people up. Create a capacity for them to be successful. 00:42:44.660 --> 00:42:51.130 And I think that would maximize social mobility for everyone and 00:42:51.130 --> 00:42:54.579 begin to level the playing field. That’s a great question. 00:42:54.580 --> 00:42:56.570 - Oliver said thank you. 00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:02.580 So people seem to be slow to raise their hands or cut in. 00:43:02.580 --> 00:43:05.800 So I’m going to ask another one. So actually, the comment about joining 00:43:05.800 --> 00:43:11.980 the military to gain sort of citizenship and stature in the country struck home 00:43:11.980 --> 00:43:17.530 to me because my grandfather actually served in World War I as a Russian 00:43:17.530 --> 00:43:21.320 immigrant before he got his citizenship. In fact, he got his citizenship 00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:25.540 a month afterwards. One thing at the USGS is actually, 00:43:25.540 --> 00:43:32.910 we have – we are not a route to employment for non-citizens. 00:43:32.910 --> 00:43:34.760 We occasionally can employ a non-citizen. 00:43:34.760 --> 00:43:38.310 It has to be under extremely rare circumstances that there is 00:43:38.310 --> 00:43:43.240 no citizen who could fill the job. So, although we’re part of the federal 00:43:43.240 --> 00:43:47.000 government, then, you know, in a sense, I guess we don’t – 00:43:47.000 --> 00:43:50.880 we can’t and probably emotionally wouldn’t fill the same role anyway. 00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:54.060 If you want to comment on that. But we also do now 00:43:54.060 --> 00:43:56.960 have another question. It's up to you. 00:43:58.210 --> 00:44:04.300 - Well, I think what you have to do is, again, create capacity 00:44:04.310 --> 00:44:08.320 for people to be successful. So, you know, can you – can you 00:44:08.320 --> 00:44:12.920 create situations that sponsor internships and those kinds of things? 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:16.950 So, if you can’t directly hire them, at least create a context 00:44:16.950 --> 00:44:19.540 where they can get some experience. 00:44:20.820 --> 00:44:25.540 And I think that might be one way is, you know, to create a sort of a minority 00:44:25.540 --> 00:44:32.000 outreach program that would mentor young people and inspire them. 00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:36.759 And, once they do become citizens, to maybe come into your fields. 00:44:38.140 --> 00:44:42.580 - All right. Actually, the next question is from Kate Scharer. 00:44:42.580 --> 00:44:45.890 Goes on the same lines. Do you have any recommendations 00:44:45.890 --> 00:44:49.020 on methods, approaches, resources, and training towards 00:44:49.020 --> 00:44:52.140 the internshipping of other people? 00:44:53.360 --> 00:44:56.180 - Towards – what was the last … - Towards the internshipping – 00:44:56.180 --> 00:45:00.380 I’m not sure that’s a word I’ve used before. 00:45:00.380 --> 00:45:03.619 Towards bringing on people for internships, I guess. 00:45:03.620 --> 00:45:06.540 - Yes. - Kate, you can correct me if I’m wrong. 00:45:06.540 --> 00:45:11.280 - That’s right. Just – you know, we are – people are starting to think 00:45:11.290 --> 00:45:18.099 in that direction more in the USGS, but we don’t – most people haven’t 00:45:18.099 --> 00:45:24.030 been teachers before, or professors, and really don’t have training 00:45:24.030 --> 00:45:27.670 in that type of behavior. And so, if you know of books or 00:45:27.670 --> 00:45:32.580 programs that help people think about doing it well, that would be useful. 00:45:32.580 --> 00:45:36.220 Thank you. - Yeah. I can’t think of anything 00:45:36.230 --> 00:45:39.310 off the top of my head, but I’ll – you know, if you email me, 00:45:39.310 --> 00:45:42.650 I’ll sort of think it through and send you some resources. 00:45:42.650 --> 00:45:47.560 But what I would say is, one thing, you know, we do – we had the 00:45:47.560 --> 00:45:52.820 same problem at West Point of recruiting people of color 00:45:52.820 --> 00:45:59.390 and women to come teach for us. 70% of our instructors at West Point 00:45:59.390 --> 00:46:01.740 are junior officers who we send to graduate school, 00:46:01.740 --> 00:46:04.230 and they get their degree, and then they come teach for us for three years, 00:46:04.230 --> 00:46:08.020 and they go back to the Army. But it’s mostly white men. 00:46:08.020 --> 00:46:10.859 Because, you know, teaching at West Point is prestigious, 00:46:10.859 --> 00:46:13.470 and that may be – you know, enhance your career, 00:46:13.470 --> 00:46:17.300 and that may get you to – may get you to general. 00:46:17.300 --> 00:46:21.960 But, so what we’ve done is, we’ve created an absolute 00:46:21.960 --> 00:46:30.580 concerted effort of outreach to people of color and women. 00:46:30.580 --> 00:46:35.000 We’ve targeted historically Black colleges and universities. 00:46:35.000 --> 00:46:39.820 We mandate that every person in our organization, each year, 00:46:39.820 --> 00:46:45.770 give us a list of six people that they know who meet that criteria. 00:46:45.770 --> 00:46:52.681 So there is this sort of active reaching out of locating people to do it. 00:46:52.681 --> 00:46:59.000 And it is – I know it sounds exclusive, and it is, but in the spirit of being 00:46:59.000 --> 00:47:03.790 inclusive, you’ve got to be a little bit exclusive and be purposeful in 00:47:03.790 --> 00:47:08.320 reaching out and finding, you know, the populations that you want. 00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:15.010 And then use the people who represent those groups to do outreach 00:47:15.010 --> 00:47:19.900 for you as well – to go out into those communities and find people. 00:47:19.900 --> 00:47:24.840 And I think you guys are in a good position to maybe partner up with 00:47:24.850 --> 00:47:31.790 local schools and local universities. I mean, I would cold call every 00:47:31.790 --> 00:47:34.819 university around you guys – San Jose State or whatever – 00:47:34.819 --> 00:47:39.610 cold call the internship office and say, you know, we’d like to 00:47:39.610 --> 00:47:45.720 create an internship program. Students are dying for opportunities 00:47:45.720 --> 00:47:51.200 to build their résumés. So what was the next question there? 00:47:51.200 --> 00:47:53.840 - Oh, so the next one is, as a research organization, 00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:56.630 can you think of ways that the USGS can reach out better to 00:47:56.630 --> 00:48:00.260 veterans as one way of increasing our diversity? 00:48:00.260 --> 00:48:04.400 - Well, yeah. Again, every university – I mean, California was really 00:48:04.410 --> 00:48:09.940 progressive when I was an undergrad in the – in the early ’80s. 00:48:09.940 --> 00:48:14.280 We had a veterans center on campus. 00:48:14.280 --> 00:48:20.480 So, again, you connecting with local universities and their VA programs. 00:48:20.480 --> 00:48:23.220 And those have gotten much bigger today. 00:48:23.220 --> 00:48:30.300 And even a lot of the elite universities – I mean, Columbia, down the road 00:48:30.300 --> 00:48:34.880 from us, some of my buddies at Harvard are telling me, much more 00:48:34.880 --> 00:48:39.079 outreach at Harvard to bring in veterans into Harvard. 00:48:39.079 --> 00:48:45.109 So I would partner with local universities and see what their 00:48:45.109 --> 00:48:48.970 VA programs are doing. A lot of guys, you know, on those – 00:48:48.970 --> 00:48:51.740 on those campuses working on GI Bills. 00:48:51.740 --> 00:48:56.840 Again, looking for opportunities to build their résumé. 00:49:00.180 --> 00:49:02.460 And, oh, by the way, if they’re veterans, they have – 00:49:02.460 --> 00:49:06.140 they have priority hiring, right, with the federal government. 00:49:07.200 --> 00:49:09.920 - Yeah. That’s true, and … 00:49:10.980 --> 00:49:13.280 Although, I am going to be honest. If this is something that was 00:49:13.280 --> 00:49:16.420 brought up – I haven’t heard it for many years, but occasionally, 00:49:16.420 --> 00:49:22.380 we did see people trying to subvert the veterans hiring. It was sometimes 00:49:22.380 --> 00:49:28.200 seen as creating problems with people not being able to hire the 00:49:28.200 --> 00:49:31.579 person they wanted to hire. And so that’s actually been raised 00:49:31.579 --> 00:49:36.550 as an issue in our equity, inclusion, and diversity group. 00:49:36.550 --> 00:49:38.400 - Yeah. We had – we had that problem too. 00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:42.099 You just have to work with your human resource people to make sure, you know, 00:49:42.099 --> 00:49:47.200 that being a veteran doesn’t outweigh being, you know, 00:49:47.200 --> 00:49:51.230 the best person for the job. - So, how do you do that? 00:49:51.230 --> 00:49:56.190 I mean, to me, it’s a question of writing a accurate position description so that 00:49:56.190 --> 00:50:01.370 you’re defining what is best, and then you get the best person regardless of 00:50:01.370 --> 00:50:04.420 who they are, as opposed to them, you know, dropping the position – 00:50:04.420 --> 00:50:08.190 which was sometimes done when it was a veteran who was going to be hired. 00:50:08.190 --> 00:50:13.839 - Yeah. Yeah. We actually had a veteran even file a lawsuit against us because 00:50:13.839 --> 00:50:17.510 he thought he was – because he was a veteran – simply because he 00:50:17.510 --> 00:50:21.650 was a veteran, that he qualified. You have to – and, again, 00:50:21.650 --> 00:50:23.700 with the federal government – I’m not sure with you guys, 00:50:23.700 --> 00:50:31.839 but in our case, we prefer people with Ph.D.s to teach undergraduates. 00:50:31.839 --> 00:50:36.010 But we can’t require the Ph.D. [laughs] 00:50:36.010 --> 00:50:39.380 Federal government sort of limits us there. 00:50:39.380 --> 00:50:46.630 But we can – when we do the – you do the scoring for credentials, 00:50:46.630 --> 00:50:55.200 you can weight the academic performance much higher than the – 00:50:55.200 --> 00:50:58.359 than the veterans preference. So it’s all – it’s all a scoring – 00:50:58.359 --> 00:51:02.140 so you need to come up with all of your qualifications just to 00:51:02.140 --> 00:51:06.240 make sure that just veteran status alone doesn’t outweigh all the other 00:51:06.240 --> 00:51:11.030 necessities that you have for the job. I’m not saying discriminate 00:51:11.030 --> 00:51:15.510 against veterans. I’m just saying that you want to be very specific about 00:51:15.510 --> 00:51:19.300 what your needs are and make sure your people fulfill those needs, 00:51:19.300 --> 00:51:26.260 so on the scoring of each candidate, the whole score, veterans – 00:51:26.260 --> 00:51:29.490 becomes a part of that whole score. 00:51:30.100 --> 00:51:33.460 - Yeah. This is actually Steve Hickman. I answered that – I asked that question, 00:51:33.470 --> 00:51:37.330 and thank you for answering it. And we have a lot of veterans in our – 00:51:37.330 --> 00:51:41.000 a number of veterans in our center now working on the technical side 00:51:41.000 --> 00:51:44.210 who are extremely skilled, as well as on the research side. 00:51:44.210 --> 00:51:45.869 And I’d like to get more on the research side. 00:51:45.869 --> 00:51:50.740 So I think your advice about reaching out to university groups and VA groups 00:51:50.740 --> 00:51:54.580 at those universities is really good. So we’ll give that a try. Thank you. 00:51:54.580 --> 00:51:55.580 - Yeah. 00:51:56.360 --> 00:51:59.760 - All right. We have a question or comment from Mike Diggles. 00:52:00.780 --> 00:52:05.120 - Yeah. This is a positive note. I’d like you all to know that I got my job 00:52:05.130 --> 00:52:12.210 at the Geological Survey because I knew how to drive boats in the Army. 00:52:12.210 --> 00:52:15.020 They had their pick of all kinds of unqualified people 00:52:15.020 --> 00:52:18.440 with bachelor’s degrees, but they couldn’t drive a boat. 00:52:18.440 --> 00:52:21.040 And I was working in southeastern Alaska around boats, and so they 00:52:21.040 --> 00:52:24.800 picked me. And here I am. I’m a poster child for how it worked. 00:52:24.800 --> 00:52:28.340 It was to my benefit to put that on my résumé. 00:52:30.400 --> 00:52:33.020 - That’s great, Mike. I didn’t know that. 00:52:33.020 --> 00:52:38.210 - Yeah. Well, you know, the military has a whole host of – creates a whole 00:52:38.210 --> 00:52:44.000 host of fascinating, interesting transferable skills. 00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:49.480 So it’s not just simply trying to level the playing field because 00:52:49.480 --> 00:52:53.390 you’re a veteran and you’re somewhat disadvantaged. 00:52:53.390 --> 00:52:57.430 It’s that you bring a whole host of skills with you. 00:52:57.430 --> 00:53:01.960 I mean, my cadets, after they graduate West Point, and they’ve done – 00:53:01.960 --> 00:53:05.720 they’re at their four- or five-year mark, they get hunted by headhunters to come 00:53:05.720 --> 00:53:09.859 work for their companies because they know they have leadership skills. 00:53:09.859 --> 00:53:12.400 Because they, you know, led in an organization. 00:53:12.400 --> 00:53:16.240 They’ve managed huge budgets. So that becomes a real transferable 00:53:16.240 --> 00:53:20.960 skill into the – into the private and not-for-profit sector. 00:53:24.140 --> 00:53:26.720 - Yeah. I just want to make sure it’s clear that what – the issue 00:53:26.720 --> 00:53:29.940 we’re trying to make sure is that we treat veterans fairly. 00:53:29.940 --> 00:53:31.600 - Absolutely. - And we have certainly benefited 00:53:31.620 --> 00:53:35.360 from many veterans in the organization. 00:53:35.940 --> 00:53:39.140 Do we have any other questions? 00:53:39.140 --> 00:53:42.360 We’re getting close. I’m going to ask one last one. 00:53:42.360 --> 00:53:47.580 So one issue I always thought was interesting was the – and this may be a – 00:53:47.580 --> 00:53:51.040 started in the 1930s – the view that intermarriage is the final 00:53:51.040 --> 00:53:54.709 step towards a lack of social distancing. 00:53:54.709 --> 00:53:56.690 - Yes. - And I’m actually intermarried. 00:53:56.690 --> 00:54:01.790 And it definitely caused some issues within families. 00:54:01.790 --> 00:54:08.960 But the – we also see, I think, a desire on the part of minority groups 00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:14.150 to not be, you know, completely erased by assimilation. 00:54:14.150 --> 00:54:18.300 And so they’re – I think there can be multiple reasons why 00:54:18.300 --> 00:54:23.660 people have opposition or feelings against intermarriage. 00:54:23.660 --> 00:54:27.240 And do you think that that is a good measure 00:54:27.240 --> 00:54:32.120 of social distancing in our country? 00:54:35.900 --> 00:54:39.099 - Well, I don’t think you necessarily have to assimilate simply 00:54:39.099 --> 00:54:44.329 because you’ve intermarried. You can still hold on to your 00:54:44.329 --> 00:54:50.170 cultural traditions, and you can still be multicultural without 00:54:50.170 --> 00:54:55.920 adopting the dominant group. You know, we’re not suggesting 00:54:55.920 --> 00:55:02.010 that all people of color marry into, you know, the dominant white race. 00:55:02.010 --> 00:55:04.800 It can work – you know, it can work both ways. 00:55:04.800 --> 00:55:09.880 And it’s actually kind of fascinating to study the proportions of which groups – 00:55:09.880 --> 00:55:12.980 I mean, some groups – you know, Black women, for example, 00:55:12.980 --> 00:55:19.140 are much more exclusive and far less likely to marry outside of their race 00:55:19.140 --> 00:55:24.640 than, say, Japanese American women who are far more likely than any 00:55:24.650 --> 00:55:27.490 other group to marry outside their race. 00:55:27.490 --> 00:55:30.780 And Black men, who are much more likely to marry outside. 00:55:32.640 --> 00:55:36.240 So it shows you there’s some dynamics going on there, too, 00:55:36.250 --> 00:55:38.290 because each group is so different. 00:55:38.290 --> 00:55:45.710 And it plays out how intersectionality continues to be significant. 00:55:45.710 --> 00:55:48.900 So I don’t think those two are mutually exclusive, though. 00:55:48.900 --> 00:55:58.790 I think one can still hold onto their ethnic identity and not be racist. 00:55:58.790 --> 00:56:03.820 [laughs] You know. And not out other people. 00:56:03.820 --> 00:56:08.640 You can still feel good about who you are and what you do and not – 00:56:08.640 --> 00:56:14.200 you know, not degrade other people or not put down other people or – 00:56:14.200 --> 00:56:16.820 and certainly not be prejudice or discriminate. 00:56:16.820 --> 00:56:18.930 Those are the two key – really, the key areas. 00:56:18.930 --> 00:56:22.800 Don’t be prejudice and don’t discriminate. 00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:25.490 And maybe you can be prejudice in the sense that you don’t have 00:56:25.490 --> 00:56:33.099 a preference for people of other races. But I just – I personally find 00:56:33.100 --> 00:56:37.940 that a little bit odd. If love – if love rules [laughs], 00:56:37.940 --> 00:56:45.720 then we should be kind of equal in our opportunity for love to flourish. 00:56:47.600 --> 00:56:50.780 Maybe that’s the last word. [laughs] 00:56:52.000 --> 00:56:54.240 - Sure. That’s probably a good place to – it was, you know, 00:56:54.240 --> 00:56:57.320 love all, serve all, right? - Yeah. 00:57:00.080 --> 00:57:05.420 - Yeah. That’s probably a good place to wrap up. 00:57:05.420 --> 00:57:08.780 Well, thank you very much, Morten. And … 00:57:08.780 --> 00:57:10.360 - Sure. Thank you. 00:57:10.360 --> 00:57:12.280 - I hope everybody enjoyed the seminar. 00:57:12.280 --> 00:57:16.380 We’ll see you guys in two weeks. - And if you want to type “thanks” in 00:57:16.380 --> 00:57:20.400 the chat window or unmute and say thank you, that’s great now. 00:57:20.400 --> 00:57:21.940 - [cat meowing] 00:57:23.280 --> 00:57:24.400 Thank you. - Thanks. 00:57:24.400 --> 00:57:26.660 - Thank you. - [child’s voice] Thank you. 00:57:26.670 --> 00:57:28.380 - Thank you. - [laughs] 00:57:28.380 --> 00:57:30.670 - Thank you. - Thank you.